00:05
Davion Ford
Welcome to Better Cities by Design, a podcast brought to you by Arcadis, where we talk to change-makers who are working to make our cities better places for people to live, work and play. I’m your host Davion Ford. This week, we’re headed back to Amsterdam to speak with Daan Klaase, Manager of Research and Station Development, and John Riepen, Manager of Amsterdam Central Station, both of them are with NS Stations. NS, which stands for Nederlandse Spoorwegen, is the national railway operator in the Netherlands. NS Stations is their business unit that focuses on managing and developing train station locations, something the NS does in conjunction with ProRail as well as some local municipal governments. NS Stations works to ensure Dutch train stations are well-maintained and well-equipped for the thousands of passengers and other visitors who pass through them every day.
01:09
Davion Ford
Amsterdam is a city where picturesque canals, rich history, and innovative urban design converge. The Amsterdam metropolitan area has a population of more than 1 million people and it’s estimated that more than 5 million tourists visit the city annually. As such, the Dutch capital is a bustling hub of activity. Moving all these people into, out of and around the city is a major logistical challenge but if you’ve ever visited Amsterdam you may well have used one of the city’s many, highly efficient and sustainable public transportation option. This includes buses and trams, the metro system, and of course, shared bicycles. Public transportation plays a vital role in the city and the entire country. For more on this here’s Arcadis’ City Executive for Amsterdam, Verali von Meijenfeldt:
02:01
Verali von Meijenfeldt
Public transport is really important in the Netherlands to get around, but also very important to keep our cities accessible. Because in the Netherlands, we're a small country with not a lot of space, but we do need a lot of new homes and new buildings. So there are a lot of spatial challenges we have at hand. And the mobility is really key into making these spaces accessible for homes. We have a polycentric city landscape, which means that our cities are very well connected by public transport. And we're also close by each other. And therefore, using the public transport is really, really something that's on top of mind and top priority for a lot of cities. But it also really is very important for our innovation power and our economic situation.
02:48
Davion Ford
Without a doubt, the backbone of the Dutch public transportation system is the country’s modern and super-efficient national railway system, which is operated by de Nederlandse Spoorwegen, or the NS as it’s called. Each day around 1.2 million people make use of the NS trains across more than 4000 train rides. And those trains stop at 404 different stations throughout the country. And one of the most prominent of these stations is Amsterdam Central Station, which was built between 1881 and 1889. Designed by renowned Dutch architect Pierre Cuypers and engineer Adolf Leonard Van Gendt the monumental structure showcases a stunning fusion of Gothic and Renaissance Revival styles. The construction of the station presented a unique challenge - it required cutting off Amsterdam from its waterfront to avoid railway lines disrupting the old city. To do this, the station was built on three man-made islands, which were connected by filling in the canals that separated them. Like many of the buildings in the city, Amsterdam Central Station stands on a foundation that’s supported by more than 8600 wooden piles that were driven into the soggy earth. Fast forward to today and Amsterdam Central is more than just a train station. It’s a true mobility hub used by around 220,000 people each day. Now about 150,000 of those folks are indeed train passengers but the remainder are folks who pass through to get on or off a bus, taxis, the metro, trams, or even the ferries that arrive and depart at the back of the station. Or they come to the station to visit one of its many shops or restaurants or one of the other amenities. And the Central Station is just one of around a dozen train stations throughout the city. Those stations are equipped with comprehensive in-station services, providing convenience and comfort to travelers. Accessibility options are also a key focus, with ramps, elevators, and tactile paving to ensure that all passengers, including those with disabilities, can navigate through the stations. These user-friendly features, coupled with the emphasis on cleanliness, safety, and helpful staff, contribute to the Netherlands’ reputation for having some of the most passenger-friendly train stations in Europe. To find out more about the stations in Amsterdam, I'm very pleased to welcome to the show, Daan Klaase, Manager of Research and Station Development, and John Riepen, Manager of Amsterdam Central Station, both from the NS.
05:29
Davion Ford
Hello, Daan and John, welcome to Better Cities by Design.
05:32
Daan Klaase & John Riepen
Hello, Davion. Hi, Davion.
05:34
Davion Ford
So first, can you explain to the folks out there who have maybe never been to the Netherlands? What the NS is and what your roles are within the organization? Maybe first Daan.
05:45
Daan Klaase
Yeah, sure, Davion. Well, my role is Manager Of Research and Station Development at NS stations, as part of Dutch Railways. Dutch Railways is the main Dutch operator in the Netherlands, and together with ProRail we have shared ownership of all the stations. I'm responsible for the planning and coordination of the new projects and investment proposals for the long term. And to make things clear, how it is organized in Netherlands, ProRail is responsible for the railway network, transport, and construction of stations. NS stations is responsible for the commercial exploitation of facilities and maintenance of the stations.
06:25
Davion Ford
Okay, and John?
06:25
John Riepen
I'm the manager of Amsterdam Central Station and I'm responsible, what I say in general, for everything except the trains in station. And I do that in shared ownership with ProRail, and in the daily operations, I'm responsible for the maintenance, for security, cleaning services, and commercial rental. And more in general, strategic for asset management, stakeholder management, and at roundtables I represent the owner of the building.
06:55
Davion Ford
Yeah, so pretty wide portfolio there for the both of you. So like cities everywhere in the world, Amsterdam's population is on the rise, and the city's also a real magnet for tourists, which is a blessing and a curse for those of us who are here living in Amsterdam. John, how many people use the city's Central Station each day?
07:16
John Riepen
Yeah, in general, we have in the Netherlands, we have more than 400 different stations. And we transport about 1.5 million people a day. And we use that for, we have 4800 domestic trains to transport all those people all over the stations. And specifically for Amsterdam Central Station, this is a station that’s all with us for 134 years. And it was designed then by the architect Cuypers. Nowadays, we have approximately 250,000 people a day. And we have 1500 trains a day through the station. And what's maybe interesting is that from all those passengers, we have also people who use the station not only as passengers but also for all the other convenience that are at the station. And we think about 25% are tourists. And we see a rise of those passengers every year, and we are planning for over five years, there will be in general 350,000 people a day. And at the normal day, that's what we are counting for. And we have special occations in the Netherlands, especially in Amsterdam, for instance, Kings Day, or Pride, and then we have more than 450,000 people a day through the station. So that's quite a lot.
08:45
Davion Ford
It is. I actually didn't realize that you had so many trains going through there every day; that's a massive number. Okay, so I have what may be a bit of a strange question: what roles do these train stations play in city life in Amsterdam? And the reason that I asked this is because I think the answer is more than merely being a place for folks to get on and off trains.
09:11
John Riepen
Yeah, that is correct. It’s an interesting question and something we are busy with. I think we have to say in first is that the station exists because there are trains. So in everything we do that we start with, the main purpose we have is that we have to get the passengers as quickly as possible from let's say, the bike park or the car park or the taxi or the bus or the metro at the platform and back again, That was the main reason. But what we see through the years is that the station's getting more and more a hub, a high traffic location, where it is becoming more interesting to add other things, other services at the station as well. And that can be shops, but also restaurants or that kind of thing. And then generally, you see that the station becomes more and more a destination in itself, this is what you mentioned also. And because of the high traffic location, and many people that are at the station and also the opportunity, we have to add other things next to the tracks and the platforms, it's coming more and more a location where people meet, because before they go into the city, you, because of all the hub function, all the different services, and all the public transports at the same location. And you meet with people first at the station, you say, “Okay, we will come from Amsterdam or we come from Amersfoort or another city. We meet at Central Station. We eat and drink there before going into the city, we go into the theater or the cinema”. So you see in the in the change of the shops we have of the companies, we have also had the station that we have a part of to go this for just for the passengers, but also more to stay where you can find restaurants and even also a barber, we have a doctor, we have pharmacies, and you will see the change of that what we offer our passengers and other people who use the station for other purposes.
11:09
Davion Ford
When I think about development projects, this is one for you Daan, I find myself falling into the trap of thinking that there's this end date. And what I mean by that is this notion that, you know, there's some point in time when one can say okay, so now the work on this station is done or now the work on this section of the city is complete, as if the asset can sort of sit there finished for a period of time until, you know, it's necessary to do maintenance or an expansion or something. But of course, this is completely wrongheaded. That's not how it works. There's constantly work underway. My question for you Daan is how do you prioritize projects, and then decide which areas of the stations to focus on for improvement?
11:50
Daan Klaase
I do agree that the railway stations are always under construction, always. Since the building of Amsterdam Central Station, it's constantly expanded by new tracks, tunnels, extra facilities, because since the opening and just John told us, the number of passengers is still rising, even up to 40%, to up to 2040. And that's why we started together with a large new project. But the number of tracks is even less, John, less tracks, but with optimized platforms to make sure that people can reach the trains. And the prioritization of projects is difficult, Davion. It's a very political discussion in the Netherlands. All the cities in the Netherlands ask for better, and sometimes new stations. And our main priority is always focused on safe stations with enough capacity. And the next is how can we have stations where you can find your way very smoothly. Another issue in the Netherlands, not on the station itself, but in the capacity of bike parking. That's what I see. I'll tell you more about that later.
12:57
Davion Ford
So there's always work to be done. And I'm curious then about how you measure the impact of your station development projects Daan. Generally, how do you assess the status and functionality of stations? What kind of data do you collect? And how do you use it to drive decision-making?
13:15
Daan Klaase
Yeah. Since 2014, exactly 10 years ago, we started measuring passenger experience with our stations' experience monitor. And together with ProRail, we do inquiries every quarter with thousands of passengers all over Netherlands. And we asked them about do you feel safe? Can you tell us something about wayfinding, what’s your waiting experience, facilities, and so on? Since we have these data, we have the ability to prioritize and evaluate all our improvements. So all our managers like John, all of the Netherlands, follow these measures, results and every time make the next step with a station. And what we have learned is that there is a hierarchy in the passenger experience, which is common to the Maslow pyramid. And from the bottom in the Maslow pyramid it's about clean and safe. The next phase is speed, and that's about how can you find your work in quick way. Then it is ease. That's about waiting or coffee. The next level is comfort, yeah can I have a lunch, can I find a bookstore? And the top of the Maslow pyramid experience is extra special shops which you find in, for example, Amsterdam Central Station. You have to see it as a building principle. When the lower part of the pyramid is not in order, there is no chance of getting a better experience by adding things on the top. So if John's station is not safe, not functional, there's no reason adding nice special shops. That will never work. So we always start with improvements focused on clean, safe and speed. That's how it works.
14:58
Davion Ford
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You gotta get the basics right before anybody is going to be at all interested in any of the maybe I would call bells and whistles that you could put on the station to make it a really nice experience.
15:09
Daan Klaase
How it works for our opening investments is that when we have an investment proposal for one of these 400 stations, the first question is how does the station perform? What did the passengers think? And we always start with the well, the bottom of our with the low-scoring stations. That's where we need improvements. Yeah.
15:27
Davion Ford
That makes a lot of sense. So if we look across Europe, I'm curious Daan how you think the stations in Amsterdam compare to those and other European capitals. Now I have to confess I am biased, maybe in a way I've lived here in Amsterdam for the last 20 years. And I, in my humble opinion, think that Amsterdam has some of the best stations that I've ever seen anywhere in Europe. But what do you guys take on this?
15:51
Daan Klaase
Well, there's still a lot to do in Amsterdam, with around 15 stations we have. I think when I look to other stations in Europe, the main difference is the bike. It's just the first and the last mile to the station. Almost half of the people in the Netherlands, use the bike for the first mile to the station. Well, for example, in Amsterdam, John is building on the capacity of 30,000 bikes, which will be the size of seven football fields. Can you imagine how many? And that's the main difference. But the connection between bike and train is unique in the world. I was in Copenhagen last summer with my family and always look around the station, then I asked the family just one hour for daddy and then we go around. In Copenhagen, I saw a very nice bicycle network, which we also use. Very safe. Bicycles, very popular in Copenhagen, but I couldn't find any comparison with Amsterdam stations in number of bike parking. So that was interesting, because even compared to Copenhagen, where the bike is very popular, there's a big difference between the stations. Interesting is also our OV-bike. And that's our shared bike system.
17:06
Davion Ford
And I should maybe add, I'll interrupt you here that OV in Dutch stands for “openbaar vervoer”, which is Dutch for public transportation.
17:14
Daan Klaase
Yeah, we have a special public transportation bike. And that one is always based on the station, some metro stations, but always based on public transport base. It's quite cheap, I have to say. And we have around 5000 in Amsterdam only. It gives our passengers freedom to go wherever they want for the last mile. It's very successful. Yeah.
17:35
Davion Ford
I've witnessed the success of the OV-bike, oh, the public transportation bike, the OV-fiets myself, they are ubiquitous around the city, and maybe they don't think they really were four or five years ago. And you see them all over the place that people use them, and It's a very valued addition to the public transportation network around the entire country, I think.
17:57
Daan Klaase
The difference between other shared concepts is that the OV bike is not a free-floating bike, it always comes back. So we always can control the quality of the bike and people know where to find them. Another difference with other stations in Europe is the focus on quality of the urban space around the stations. And since we have built the new large stations like the Hague, Delft, Rotterdam Central, we have in close cooperation with municipalities invested in, for example, the pavement quality, green, but also social safe areas around the station, Rotterdam is the best example. And we also see that in the experience monitor, it's the best scoring station. You just step out of the station, and you feel the same high standard as in the station using the same material, etc. So that's really the difference when I step out of stations in Paris, even Copenhagen, after 10 meters is gone the quality, but it's not an older 400 stations, it's no new projects. Yeah, I'm proud of that.
19:01
Davion Ford
My next question is for you, John, which is, you talked about Amsterdam Central Station, how long it's been there, it was designed by Pierre Cuypers. And so it's a historical and also significant architectural site for the city. You need to balance that taking care of history and the architecture with the need to modernize things and to improve the infrastructure for all of the reasons that we've been talking about for safety, but then, you know, comfort and speed, all of these things. So how do you balance that need for modernization and also taking care of this kind of like historical, cultural artifact?
19:41
John Riepen
Yeah, I think it's always a puzzle. Um, like we feel deeply responsible for the legacy. So we will do everything that we can to preserve the old building. And if you walk around now at Amsterdam Central Station, you will find in all the old parts, all the historical parts, what are part of the, of the national monument, everything will be intact. Precisely how it was many years ago and as Cuypers invented it and designed it. So it's also a big compliment at Cuypers himself that he was able to design a station that is nowadays in modern times still functional. And throughout the years, we had many renovations and Daan mentioned it already. And so when we can add tunnels or passengers or a bus terminal, at the old part we will do. And sometimes it is necessary to have also impact on the old part, on the historical part. And then we do, we look in our archives and we know now for many years that Cuypers left a lot of construction plans and building material designs left behind. So we can find out what were his ideas and what is still available at the market of today. And we try to reuse his design and thinking and try to find materials that's also still in modern times available for our constructors. So that's maybe the first part of answering of your question. And then if we can't find anything in our archives, we have to find out what was his idea or try to go in his mind back in his mind what he was intended. And sometimes it means that we will scratch layers of paint at an old door to find out what was the original paint and color. So then we can make a new design and bring, for instance, color back to the station. At the end the main purpose of a station is to give passengers the opportunity to get to the platforms and to have an operational station. With the growing of the amount of passengers we have, sometimes we have to change small things at the station. But we start with the legacy and the heritage and the knowing of the past. If it is not possible to fit in, then we go in a meeting with the city of Amsterdam or even a ministry to find out if it's possible to have some changes in the National Monument. And if we have to, we do so and we get also other improvement to do so. But in that follow, we don't start what's the most easy way to change the station. We start with the history and the building and the ideas of Cuypers and we add the modern way of thinking of the solutions we have to find to cope with the more passengers that are finding us today.
22:44
Davion Ford
And it's not only great to hear that, but as a person who lives in Amsterdam, and anybody out there listening who's been to Amsterdam, and to the central station, it's hard to put into words how impressive of a structure it is, and really a landmark for the city. So to wrap things up, gentlemen, maybe first Daan, and then you John. What's your vision for the future of Amsterdams stations? And then obviously John, in particular, Amsterdam Central, and how do you see these stations evolving, and improving in the coming years to meet the challenges of the future?
23:19
Daan Klaase
I think the train station will be more and more function as the entrance to the city. As many cities, Amsterdam is developing with more houses, but less costs. Last December, the municipality introduced the maximum of 30 kilometers an hour for the inner ring of Amsterdam. And that, again, was a new step to less cars, and more focus on a safe city for walking and bicycles. So in the future, it will be difficult or very expensive to access Amsterdam by car. And that means a shift to train uses, which is very nice for us. And what I see is a shortage of space for extra bicycle parking, I just told you about the number of bicycles around Amsterdam Central. So it will be a problem. I don't know where it stops. What I see is that we have to improve the quality of the urban space, the municipality is doing that. So people will more often go for a walk. And that's also very interesting for sustainable development of the city.
24:22
Davion Ford
John do you have anything you'd like to add?
24:24
John Riepen
Yeah, maybe to add that one of the things we see now, and it will be more and more in the futures of also the discussion about the environment. So also, trying to fly less and take the train more. So there will be from that point of view, also more passengers at the station and more cooperation within the train companies to deliver a more sustainable and also predictable train cards, so that you can know if you get on the train in Amsterdam and you have to go to, let's say Stockholm, and then you know how many hours it will take and that you don't have too many delays or other things. And otherwise, we have the survey Daan already mentioned. It's the SBM. So we know what passengers want, but we also measure what our, shops and the owners of the shops and the companies behind those shops want. So we try to be developing that also. And one of the things we now add at the station is also flexible office space. This company that will add in one of our buildings a flexible office space, you will see that also companies want to have their head office or other facilities nearby a station, also because they don't want their employees travel by car, but more by train or other public transportation. And for the rest, we are open for all the ideas that the city or the people have. So we try to be flexible in the possibilities that we can add to the station. And what I mentioned before already was, we have a doctor and a pharmacy. And sometimes you will see that also universities are interested to have small classes at the station so that the students don't have to travel that much anymore or that they can flex call or video call at the station. And now so we are also looking at trends and try to act to it.
26:17
Davion Ford
Daan and John, thank you so much for your time and for joining the show.
Daan Klaase & John Riepen
You're welcome. Thank you.
Davion Ford
Okay, that's it for this episode of the show. I want to really thank Daan Klaase and John Riepen from NS stations for joining us. Please stay tuned for future episodes as we continue to bring changemakers to the table who are driving progress in urban development. And of course, if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe and check out our other episodes. I'm Davion Ford and you've been listening to Better Cities by Design, a podcast brought to you by Arcadis, the world's leading company delivering sustainable design, engineering, and consultancy solutions for natural and built assets. You can learn more about Arcadis by visiting our website arcadis.com or following Arcadis on LinkedIn or Facebook. And please stay curious, get inspired and remember, the future belongs to those who dare to make a difference in the cities we call home.
